Home » Abuse » We Don’t Want Your Kind ‘Round Here!

We Don’t Want Your Kind ‘Round Here!

Over seventeen years ago,  I started having flashbacks from the years of abuse I suffered as a child. Flashbacks came on as a tsunami. I could no more control these flashbacks than those in the path of the 2004 Tsunami could pile enough sandbags to hold back the Indian Ocean.

Flashbacks of all the  smells, ghastly images, and disgusting physical sensations came unbidden during my waking hours.  Bloodcurdling nightmares from agonizing years of abuse invaded my unconscious during sleeping hours.

I was sure I was losing my mind.  Terrified and panic-stricken that I had become psychotic or worse was developing schizophrenia.  I told a family member who was a physician what was occurring.  This family member was familiar with some of my history.  He allayed my fears.  He assured me I wasn’t becoming psychotic nor was I developing schizophrenia.  He explained I was not losing my mind.  I was suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).  He suggested I get some counseling.

I was attending Bob Jones University as a  20 something town student.  The Dean of Students, Mr. Jim Berg, and I both attended the same church.  Everyone from church and the University highly recommended I go to Jim Berg for counseling.  Although, I couldn’t explain the reason why, Mr. Berg gave me the willies since the first time I shook his hand at church. I had spoken to him very superficially, briefly and hastily at church, but to me he seemed like a scoundrel.   It appeared to me the only true smile I witnessed was when he spoke of punishing Bob Jones University Students or his own children.  At those times his ever present grin appeared to be more of a smirk.

Everyone told me how wise and wonderful he was in counseling those of us who had abuse in our past.  I decided my creep detector must be broken as all of these people thought him to be the bee’s knees.   Mr. Berg was the recommended “go-to man”  known for counseling 100’s of victims of sexual abuse both at the church I attended at the time and at Bob Jones University.

I soon found out that Berg didn’t believe in PTSD or depression. PTSD and depression were both sins. And, according to him, flashbacks are a result of the person *wanting* to relive their past.  Flashbacks were a result of of pride and bitterness.

I wish I were making this up, but I’m not. 

He even tried to convince me to place my forefinger in what he demonstrated was a set rat-trap as his idea of a “trust exercise.”  When I refused he upbraided me.  He told me if I couldn’t trust him on a horizontal plane then I couldn’t trust God on a vertical plane.

I knew there was a God in Heaven, but didn’t think god’s last name was Berg.

He said and did other terrible things too including telling me I had sinned while I was raped. After counseling me for about 6 months  by Mr. Jim Berg (who calls himself a Christian Counselor), he became irate with me because I wasn’t getting better. He told me, “I can’t help you. No one can help you. Not even God can help you. You’re too damaged.”

So, I gave up. I was too damaged, I thought,  As a result of believing I was too damaged, I went home and attempted suicide by overdose.

different egg

I forgot to call into work and my supervisor became concerned. In the few years I worked there, I had rarely missed work at all was certainly was never was a “no call, no show” before this.
Then the Berg decides attempting suicide is a sin. He expels me from the University.

Way to kick a girl when she’s down.

Doesn’t sound to me  how Jesus would act toward someone who was hurting.  What do you think?

At the time I was a member of the same church as Jim Berg and after this, I decided to try another church in the same town affiliated with the University.

This pastor is also a well-respected Bible Professor at the University. I went to his church that morning, didn’t say a word about my abuse history, or what had transpired. I was full of shame and guilt. At this time in my life, I apologized for everything. After the morning service as I was leaving the pastor calls my name asks me to come into his study for a moment.

Now it’s important to remember I was a first time visitor at this church. He started referring to me being sexually abused and a child and told me in no uncertain terms if I was going to attend his church I could NEVER speak to anyone in “my church concerning the immorality you took part in as a child.”

He stammered on about about pure children and defiled children for a few minutes.

I knew he had a daughter who at the time, was around the same age I was when my abuse first started. I asked him, “What if you found out ____ was being molested?”

He told me, “pure children don’t attract such men, only IMPURE children attract such men.

I must have looked as shocked I felt at his remarks as then he and his wife walked with me to the door of his church. He opened the door and as I walked out his parting remark to me was, “We don’t want your ‘kind” ’round here.

He closed the door of the church.

kitten we don't want your kind

I walked away, tearfully, that day realizing I was kicked out of the Christian University and out of visiting a church all within 1 month.  I was speaking out– shyly at the time–about my abuse.

I was so full of guilt and shame.

I never stopped believing in God, but I did question everything I was ever taught. It took years before I put my pinky toe back inside a church–any church. I don’t think I would have walked completely away from church for years if that pastor hadn’t said what he did.

By the way, I was three-years-old when the abuse began.

Psalm 56-8

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125 thoughts on “We Don’t Want Your Kind ‘Round Here!

  1. PTSD isn’t a mental illness. The problem is bitterness against others who hurt you and against God.
    I have noticed that most of those “in therapy” for PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) have a source to blame for all their problems, while some may have some valid reasons for bitterness and resentment most are just “perceived injury” or abuse but in all of the cases I have known, very few have been willing to take full responsibility for their own pattern of thinking, i.e., self pity, woe is me, villains they hate and look for, unwillingness to forgive, always an outward source to blame for the condition.

    I hurt for people like you who insist on retaining bitterness and resentment and feed on it day and night, hating every moment. That is the true diet for your brain, never knowing what freedom is there for the asking and what is available that takes effort or a total desire to move forward, but only a fool will sit in one place like a caged animal…

    This so-called PTSD is a choice to retain bitterness,, a choice to be fully into oneself or self oriented or not, a choice to forgive or not, a choice to be irresponsible or not, a choice to let God have your life or not, you would think by a lifetime of failure that people would accept what frees us and accept the solutions to it all, but it seems you’re just not willing to do that since it means getting down and honest with yourself where you really live and what things you are choosing to hang onto that dirty bitter well that you chose to drink out of by the bucket full.

    • Cindi,

      When you receive your MD and become a neurologist and learn to read functional MRI’s instead of spouting what you were taught at BJU by Berg and Mazak perhaps I’ll be more inclinded to take you serious.

      Otherwise the bitter card is all you have and its old and worn out.

      • Besides, all the word “bitter” does when coming from a Fundy is reflect the heartlessness, judgementalism, and hateful spirit of the speaker. It almost never has anything to do with the true state of mind of the intended target.

      • Dear Cindi,

        PTSD is real and has its diagnosis beginnings from when soldiers in wars were dubbed having “shell shock”. this was later understood to be PTSD. You should look up some real research on PTSD and seek to understand what it REALLY is.

        I encourage you to look it up instead of being a stupid ass to people who have PTSD from abuse they’ve suffered. PS: You’ll have to forgive me. Asses like you who need bitch slapped with a hammer give me Tourette’s Syndrome.

      • Forgive Cathy!
        I know for a fact you were taught 1 Chronicles 16:22. “Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.”
        Each time you are tempted to bring Christian leader to task for their sexual sins, put it under the blood and stop taking it upon yourself to expose them. It’s God’s job, not yours.

        By refusing to do these things all you’ve succeeded in doing is helping the Accuser.

      • God will judge you harshly. I feel sorry for you when God holds you accountable for making things public. You’re may have been wronged some but you have no right to make these things public.

      • Cindi, it is time for you to crawl back under your sin-condoning rock and shut up. It is people like you who have given perverts free reign in your churches. You will not hold the perverts accountable. You will not chastise them for their perversions . YOU have the blood of abuse victims on your hands. Cathy and others are the ones doing God’s work trying to stop this garbage and prevent future victimization. Silence enables perverts, and so do you.

      • I am an abuse survivor and just found your page today. when i read comments from people like cindy it is as if the devil has borrowed someones keyboard to torment me again. Sorry we all had to read “her” comments. i will pray for her because the bible says it is a righteous thing for God to recompense tribulation to those that trouble you”

      • These comments disgust me. I’ve seen this ridiculous form of “Biblical counseling” damage multiple people, but it never ceases to astound me that people fall for it.

        The first instance I knew of was when an 80-something-year-old man at my former church was told by the “pastor of counseling” that his grief over the very, very recent death of his wife of over fifty years was a sign of sin in his life. No sympathy, no respect for a man more than twice his age. Just arrogance and pious cruelty.

        I guess I knew this was the Fundy response to your horrific past, but to actually see someone say that you should let these “Christian leaders” slide and confess your desire to “out” them as if you were the one in the wrong… I’m just so sorry. Sorry that you suffered so much as a precious child, and sorry that so many who should have been the first to demonstrate compassion have instead ostracized you and sided with your abusers.

        I graduated from BJU over a decade ago after growing up there as a faculty kid, and I spent years defending them from what I considered wrongful attacks. While don’t think I ever encountered you during that time, I would still like to apologize for my role in defending the people who have hurt you. Like so many other alumni disgusted by the events of the past few years (events which made it impossible to continue simply dismissing the critics as “bitter”), I’ve washed my hands of them and truly hope that they won’t be around much longer to continue their special form of abuse.

    • Cindi: it is painfully obvious you have no clue what you are talking about. You have never had a flashback, for one thing. Flashbacks are never wanted, they are not a sign of bitterness or any of the other sack of garbage lies that Fundies like to throw around. They are real, painful, and not controllable. You need to get down on your prideful knees and beg God for forgiveness not only for your cruel words, but also for treating the victim like the sinner instead of her abusers. Shame on you, and may it be multiplied since you are hiding your evil intention behind God.

    • Tell the tens of thousands of war veterans who have served to protect your right to spout such foolishness. The ones who have killed and almost been killed so you can lay your pretty, self-righteous head on the pillow every night without having to contemplate such evil. You know nothing. Karma’s a female dog with really sharp teeth, so you should watch the judgment you pass on others.

    • Thank you Cindi for your educated opinion. I’m sure thousands of soldiers, policemen, firefighters, and traumatized people who wake up in the middle of the night with visions of terror running through their minds will be relieved that all they need to do is ask God to take it away and it will be gone. Well, it will be gone if they wear the right clothes to the right church and hang with the right people listening to the right music …

      PTSD is most assuredly a mental condition (as is depression). There are many, many Christian psychologists and counselors who would point out to you just how real it is and how your assessment of what Cathy is experiencing is full of the same $#!+ that the arrogant @$$ Berg spouts. He has less qualifications to counsel than I do and my degrees are in management and education. Calling it a choice in every case (and yes, there are some people who choose to be ignorant, judgmental and bitter toward others – people like you, for instance) is just plain wrong.

      I’d suggest you pull your swollen head out of the Fundy sandbox and learn what really transpires in the world. Perhaps then you could find a way to show the true God to people in need that hurt instead of spewing venom like so many do. I’m sorry for you, I truly am. Your God is so weak, small and angry it must be hard to put on your best clothes and walk into one of your stilted churches.

      Oh, and if you really think you are right, then buzz off and quit reading the blog. It’s a choice for you to do so as well. If it is such a “dirty bucket” then perhaps you shouldn’t put your pretty little sainted head in it …

    • Attitudes like Cindi’s are extremely harmful to those who suffer from the abuse described above. None of the so-called “Christian” pastors and counselors are qualified or able to treat those who suffer the abuse prevalent in these fundamentalist churches. Being told that “we don’t want your kind around here” is actually the best thing that can happen to a victim of abuse, because that gives the victim the opportunity to seek help from an experienced practitioner with legitimate qualifications (even though that qualified practitioner may be Jewish, or Atheist or even a Buddhist!)

    • Cindi, you need to repent for your lack of compassion and love. You are the antithesis of the Great Commandment Jesus gave.

      Your bitterness and hatred for the truth are worn on your sleeve. Apparently you were mentally abused by Jim as well. I hope you get help and release your bitterness, hatred, and bile.

    • I feel sorry for you Cindi.

      It seems you have been taught lessons on bitterness and fear since the cradle. What a sad existence to brought up with.

      It’s clear no one has told you the truth about what PTSD is, but some perceived hate filled speech that has been drilled into you. It seems to your detriment you have bought into it as well.

      Its truly evil that people seem to get some sick high off other’s pain. I pray that Jesus helps you see his light that is loving, and it drowns out all that contempt in your heart.

      All those opinions you have bought into thinking they were fact? I guess having been around enough of it all your life it would make sense that some of it rubbed off. Sadly, you are living in a cage of contempt. It seems you don’t know any better.

      Choosing a path with no love. A show of no compassion, empathy just judgement. God didn’t teach you that – mankind did. Its marinated in everything you said here. The bible shows us how to approach those that have hurts, and you couldn’t back up one word of what you said from the bible.

      God sent Jesus for all the broken people in the world. If you look a the story of the women at the well? You notice he came after all the ‘proper’ women had gathered their water and went home. He came to speak to her, and have her spread his good word around. He choose to give her his water that she may never thirst. He choose carefully, and did it purposely. He picked one that you would throw out of your home. That should tell you something.

      Even David cried out to the Lord about evil deeds against him. God didn’t lambast him for it. He didn’t tell him it was his fault, or how he brought it upon himself. God only did that with choices he made himself, and acknowledged.

      It seems man taught you that others that bring evil into your life – that its due to something about YOU. You can’t find that in your bible either. You know why? Its not in there. God states we are to protect, care, and love all the little children. Its not your job – or their’s – to decide which children its okay to harm because they are evil anyway. Sadly, that is what you are supporting. You have brought into the evil that the devil himself craves, and you don’t even know it.

      God doesn’t get some sick joy from other’s hurt. Human’s do. Then they wag their tongues telling them its their fault.

      Your choice was to marinate in the darkness, bitterness, fear, and all the uglies that God doesn’t wish on anyone. What a sad path you have chosen, and yet decided its a good enough path to project on others. You have to show God more than some pedigree you think you have, and show how your works showed love. You won’t be able to do that, because of the under belly of contempt.

      I pray God has mercy on your soul.

    • Cindi, I have no idea who you are but I am just blown away by your comment – and not in a good way either! I am just aghast at your arrogant and condescending response to a blog posting that should have outraged you about the religious creeps who treated an abuse victim in such a despicable way. These men don’t know Jesus at all – Jesus doesn’t act this way – he doesn’t tell the brokenhearted that “we don’t want your kind around here”. Your comment fits in the same category as them and makes me realize that you too could not possibly know Jesus either. You just have religion but not Jesus. The lack of compassion in your comment is just astounding! I am speechless at how you could take this story that Cathy just poured her heart into and then make it a soapbox for you to poo-poo the validity of PTSD. Wow! Incredible!

      First of all Cathy, I wept tears reading through this – my heart just broke for how you must have felt. I am so sorry that Jesus was so misrepresented to you. I wish I could have been with you and walked out with you. I would have told you how wrong the pastor was and how wrong Mr. Berg was.

      PSTD is real and anyone who has any education in the field of mental health knows this. It is not a choice – it is the mind and body’s reaction to traumatic events. Shame on anyone who tries to blame you for this. It is really sad that so many in the BJU community don’t get it – I do not see you as a bitter person at all. You are just sharing the pain you have been through and progressing through the process of grieving what was stolen from you. I find that many religious people try to silence us survivors by heaping shame on us for sinning when all we are doing is speaking the truth. They don’t want to hear the ugly truth of what we have been through so they shoot the messenger instead of confronting their behavior that contributes to more abuse.

      Love you dear sister and friend. I am proud of you and I know Jesus is too. Don’t let the the Pharisees get you down…you are doing well my friend.

      • I am in no way trying to claim Cathy never suffered any abuse. What I am saying is she has refused to accept her part and her responsibilities to admit that that too.

        There were certain things that we (Christians) “knew” were wrong at one particular time. Christians believed that it was wrong for women to wear pants to church, and rock music was wrong. Many things our society said was 100% wrong is accepted as now accepted as normal.

        We’ve backtracked significantly from those positions. Cathy airing all this dirty laundry on her blog is a good example of this.

        We have now allowed our interpretation of the Bible to be influenced by the popular opinion in the World and what some liberal attorneys and judges tell us to turn pastors (anointed by God) over let them decide and punish in a court where the God of the Universe is the one to judge..I know there is even a so-called Christian organization named GRACE that has been named in the comments of this blog who not follow this lie from Satan but encourage others “hurt” by Pastors and Christian Organization be prosecuted in this early system. What should one expect any different from a organization whose founder is the grandson of a compromising apostate such as Billy Graham?..

        God’s Word did not change, but we did. Our society as a whole has abandoned the idea of personal responsibility. We are no longer responsible for our actions. Nothing is our fault. If we can’t find a person to blame it on, we create a disorder to blame it on. We are not sinful; we are sick. It is not our fault. As Cathy is making the same mistake because of this so-called PTSD some meddlesome secular therapist convinced her she has.

      • Cindi – So you still ascribe to the anti-interracial dating and marriage policies that Bob Jones taught was of the Bible until 2000 when it became expedient for the Bible to change???
        The Bible doesn’t change. But culture does. And the Bible was written for and written to a specific set of individuals with their specific set of issues.
        Nowhere does the Bible even intimate that pants are wrong on a woman. Pants weren’t even invented in Bible times. That’s like Bob Jones’ attempt to say that the Bible doesn’t permit gum-chewing…. Gum wasn’t around. Nor was rock music. It is MAN that determined these things were “wrong”. Evil sinners like Bob Jones III is who made these determinations.
        Because YOU want to follow their edicts without thinking like a lemming running off a cliff does NOT make this things wrong or sin.

        And FTR, being raped and forced into sexual situations does NOT mean someone has sinned. When you are raped, are you going to ask for forgiveness?

      • Ok. Cindi I’ve had enough.

        I’ve left this go on this long, because I know you and know the abuse I witnessed you receive.

        However, you’re an adult and you’ve taken this way too far.
        If you plan on commenting on my blog in the future, plan on telling everyone who you *really* are in relation to me, or I promise you I, myself, will expose your identity.

        I’m not going to enable your actions. Not one more time.

        Think I’m kidding about exposing publicly who you really are? Try me. .

      • Keep blabbering your hateful drivel, Cindi. Your own words are as damning to Fundamentalism as anything Cathy and the rest of us could say… maybe even moreso because you defend the indefensible and condemn someone who is truly blameless . Come on, blaming someone abducted at age THREE? That is truly perverted in the worst possible way. Woe to those who call good evil and all that.

      • Ok. Cindi I’ve had enough.

        I’ve left this go on this long, because I know you and know the abuse I witnessed you receive.

        However, you’re an adult and you’ve taken this way too far.
        If you plan on commenting on my blog in the future, plan on telling everyone who you *really* are in relation to me, or I promise you I, myself, will expose your identity.

        I’m not going to enable your actions. Not one more time.

        Think I’m kidding about exposing publicly who you really are? Try me. .

    • Cindi,

      I received a email from wordpress informing me you reported my blog to WordPress as X-Rated.

      Yes, I know it was you, Cindi.

      Is Exodus 20:16 still in the Bible? I pretty sure it’s the 9th commandment which states;

      “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.”.

      You know what you’re proving by your actions? Desperate people do stupid things.

    • Cindi, You have taken my breath away !! I am sitting here reading your posts and I am gasping in shock. Your attitude
      is horrifying. Did you go to BJones ? Your critical, unloving
      attitude reminds me of Jim Berg and others of his ilk ~ I have
      had dealings with him. Please repent of this wicked condemnation of the hurting. If you do not, it WILL come back to haunt you; be sure of that.

      Sincerely,
      E.L.

    • Kerry,

      There are plenty of Christian counseling programs out there that recognize and treat both the true psychological issues present and the spiritual side of things. Frankly, it takes both in many cases.

      You need not feel any guilt over this as Cathy says. You aren’t responsible. There are others who should not only feel guilt but deep, deep remorse and repentance for their parts – overt and covert.

      Mark

  2. Whoa! Cyndi, (or whoever you are) I’m sorry you have such self-delusional issues. I’m sure myself, or anyone else could not possibly know what you must have gone through in your life to adopt such flawed and cock-eyed reasoning. I mean, I’ve seen denial in others, as well as dealt with it myself, but whatever it was that happened to you to make you cling to such a ridiculous notion must have been extremely life-altering, and not for the better.

    Would you say such things to Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight? How about Esther Combs? How about all the boys abused by Jerry Sandusky?

    I believe such insightfulness on your part is deserving of a wider audience instead of just little ol’ Cathy. Especially if you are on the same page as this reprobate Jim Berg, who, according to Cathy, said she was too far gone to be helped anyway. I would suggest that you spend some time in a VA hospital ministering to soldiers who have been maimed and disfigured in the recent wars our country has been in. Telling them exactly what you have commented above would get such an insightful message out on a much larger scale. Better yet, minister these scriptural insights of yours to them AND their families. And make sure you explain what you base your conclusions about PTSD on. Tell them that their nightmares, panic attacks, depression, etc. is nothing more than the symptoms of choosing to be bitter, to be fully into themselves, self oriented, unforgiving, irresponsible and not allowing God into their lives. See how much of that you can say before a member of a soldier’s family throws you out the window or knocks out a few of your teeth.

    I can’t say what in the world happened to you to make you such a cold, lacking-in-empathy and absolutely GODLESS woman (if you are indeeed a woman) but I’m gonna pray that somehow, the Lord will miraculously heal the deadness in your own soul, so you will stop in your campaign to inflict harm on others, because that is exactly what you’re doing.

  3. Oh Cindi,
    Do you truly believe that PTSD doesn’t exist at all? Or just in cases that you JUDGE to be
    in a “bitter”person? What about soldiers who
    return from war after witnessing atrocities? Are they just bitter, resentful people holding on to some sort of a grudge and looking for
    someone to blame?
    #1: If you can reply and say that about soldiers, then you are probably too far gone
    to even be having this conversation.
    #2: If you can reply and say PTSD is real but
    not in the case of those who witness (or are
    subjected to) atrocities at the hands of a supposed spiritual leader, then you are the one who is uncaring and bitter.
    Please take the time to read up on PTSD (nope, it’s not in the Bible)! Look at pictures
    of the brains of those affected. It is clearly a
    real and diagnosable illness with real symptoms. I spent years being untreated for
    depression because a “pastor” had the same
    narrow-minded ideas. You can bet the farm that these people are first in line to get treatment for cancer or diabetes.
    Sad and sickening.

  4. There’s no PTSD? Try telling that to the thousands of soldiers who have come back from war with it (as in as far back as WWI, but back then they called it “shell shock”).

    I’m with Cathy. When you have a physician’s degree, with a specialization in neurology, I’ll listen to you. In the meantime, show compassion, period.

  5. Cathy, You are one of the bravest people I know. God sees things so different than the Fundies. Cindi who condemns PSTD as sin and bitterness has her head up her backside. She has no knowledge of what she speaks. You were only 3, helpless, and at the mercy of evil people. PSTD comes on and you can’t stop it. Maybe you hear a song or a phrase, and memories come back. I also went through a bad time with PSTD as an adult. I finally was able to understand what happened to me as God saw the events. The enormity of the evil that was given to me (more so to you) and done under the name of God was horrifying.

  6. Cathy, I’ve read some of your story before. Yet, reading this big today, my heart aches with yours yet again. It’s not so hard for “the church”(and I use that term VERY loosely here) to recognize what was done to you as a child as being terrible abuse. Yet your abuse at the hands of supposed Christians, those you turned to for help and comfort, those who you expected to be your brothers and sisters in a supposedly safe place of family- that is, if possible, so much worse, so much deeper, more difficult to bear and to heal from. I’m so glad you HAVE found your voice, and alsohave deep inside the discernment to know the Spirit’s voice and how different it is than man’s voice. Praying for our Father to just surround you with His love and comfort. Know that you are believed and supported and admired and loved by many brothers and sisters (like me) that you haven’t met. You are a strong woman in my book.

  7. How does someone who has never been, or doesn’t claim to be, BITTER, know what the signs of bitterness are in others? Surely, the Bible does not teach, specifically, what these signs are. I find it ridiculous for someone to tell others about their bitterness when they have no clue what the signs are in that person’s life; being they do not truly know the person. I was bitter for years and overcame my bitterness. Not only do I know what the “signs” and “fruit” of that bitterness were in my life and the life of my family, but I now KNOW what those signs are in the lives of others because I lived it. If you do not claim to be bitter yourself, be quiet. You don’t know what you are talking about. Otherwise, you are doing nothing more than purposely attacking a hurting and wounded soul and doing it as a representative of God. Which is condemned by the Third Commandment as follows:

    “The Third Commandment also has not fared well in English. Lo tissa et shem Ha-Shem Eloheikha la-shav is usually translated as “You shall not TAKE the Lord your God’s name in vain.” Many people think that this means that you have to write God as G-D, or that it is blasphemous to say words such as “god-damn.” Even if these assumptions are correct, it’s still hard to figure out what makes this offense so heinous that it’s included in the document that forbids murdering, stealing, idolatry, and adultery. However, the Hebrew, Lo tessa, literally means “You shall not CARRY [God’s name in vain]”; in other words don’t use God as your justification in selfish causes. The Third commandment is the only one concerning which God says, “for the Lord God will not forgive him who carries His name in vain” (Exodus 20:6-7). The reason now seems to be clear. When a person commits an evil act, he discredits himself. But when a religious person commits an evil act in the name of God, he or she discredits God as well. And since God relies on religious people to bring knowledge of Him into the world, He pronounces this sin unpardonable.” — Rabbi Joseph Telushkin, Jewish Literacy

  8. I am so sorry the IFB abusers continue to try and discredit you and blame you because you were abused. When I see the BITTER card used against IFB victims I now see that as proof of the IFB abuse as they are hitching themselves to the original abuser by siding with the predator. . This has happened to my 2 sons when they spoke out about the IFB sexual abuse as. well as many others, The BITTER card has become a bit of a badge of honor that your story is impacting change and the IFB are attempting to dim the light of TRUTH, Keep telling your story and the LIGHT of TRUTH will shine even brighter,. No Bitter card is big enough to shadow the TRUTH. Your story will keep other children from being forced to carry their abusers secrets. This Little Light of Mine, I am going to let it shine,

  9. So all of you that think PTSD is not a mental illness, but simply a sin of bitterness are going to look our military troops straight in the eye and tell them that the flashbacks, loneliness and depression they’re bravely wrestling with are just a result of their own self – centered bitterness? How about lifting their load by thanking those people with PTSD for having the courage to face their memories thereby helping to heal themselves and others?

  10. Cindi: You know not one thing of which you speak. You know not one thing about compassion or forgiveness. What you said is more than sufficient to make anyone reject the Christ of whom you speak . . . . ooops . . . I just noticed you never mentioned His name–Wonderful Counsellor, among others. You never mentioned one Scripture. So much for your Christ-less, compassion-less, unforgiving religion.

  11. Cindi you are heartless and the reason so many hurting people leave church. It’s bad enough to have been abused, but to have no safe haven, no place to turn to for healing because people like you have drunk the IFB kool-aid and heap further harm on those who are in unimaginable pain when they do try to find help. It is all we can do to even go to church, let alone ask for help. Your whole comment was evil and straight from the pit!
    I’m not in the IFB world anymore, thank God! But even in reformed circles it’s hard to not be ok, hard at times to go to church knowing the triggers will be there, fearing another round of flashbacks and trying so hard to not show what’s happening.
    This writer was brave and put it all out there and you trampled over it in a cowards fashion without any original thought of your own.

  12. The most tragic and sad statement made in that article is, “He closed the door of the church.” Most of those “We don’t want ‘your kind’ around here” pastors have no idea of the blood that soaks their hands. Of all places on this earth for a hurting, abused person to find safety, love, acceptance, and help . . . it is the church. Yet this pastor–and I am pretty sure I know exactly who he is because he was a spiritual stuffed shirt at BJU when I was there–says something so crass and closes the door of the church to you. Does he even believe the same Bible and if so where in the world can he find justification for his comment and his behavior? If that pastor and his church is a picture of Christ . . . oh Lord help us.

  13. Dear Cathy,

    You are a beautiful soul. So very beautiful. You have shown such great courage to try and share your experience with us all. We really appreciate your sharing. I was abused many times in my childhood, from more than one individual. I totally understand your feelings. You are not bitter! People need to realise how these situations reallt affect a Human! We are humans! We do have feelings. And we have a life we have to live even at times when we dont want to. I am religious; at the time when i tried to open up, i was told by the ones i thought were closer to God how its just my fate. I must have done something bad for it to happen to me. I am suffering my own evil deeds. 🙂 but i tell you what, i have never ever felt God as warm and loving to me. If i am so bad, then i wouldnt love God as much as i do now and feel His love back. Never forget how beautiful you are, and how you have survived. You have been courageous and always will be. I see my experiences as tools that have shaped me to become who i am today. There are many negative thoughts that cross our minds, but remember how you are a true Lionness who has come so far and will forever be brave. For yourself and your daughter. Sending you love, warmth and a smile x

  14. Sending you love, warmth and smiles Cathy. 🙂 you did nothing wrong, God is not treating you as the sinner- unlike His servants. You are a beautiful soul and will always shine. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us all, knowing how uneasy it all can be. You are a Lioness; who has survived, and will always shine. X

  15. And for others; we all need to be compassionate and understanding. If tables had turned and it was us in those shoes.. we wouldnt be posting such silly things. Be considerate to a Sister. In any of the post, not once did i feel Cathy was being bitter against anyone or God. Shes a beautiful soul, such stupid comments wont bring her brightness down.

    Keep shining baby! 🙂

  16. Cindi: Thanks for showing the world clearly that you do not have the love of God in you.

    Cathy: I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through. You are so brave to share your story.

  17. Nothing surprises me anymore, even a story as terrible as this one… yes there are sick people in this world… they are those who blame, cover-up and perpetrate… they are in many places of authority unfortunately… probably because they like it there… for sure they don’t want the boat rocked because they might fall out… keep quiet all you wounded people… there is nothing wrong… you need to learn to pretend like they do… the fakes the phonies…

  18. Bob Jones University sounds like an awful place……psuedo-christians, leagalistic, self-righteous Phariseeical and shallow. I would stay far away from that place. Sounds like Satan reigns there not Jesus.

  19. I wish you could come to my church, dear, because we don’t have jerks like those in charge. If they indeed said those things, they are not reading the Bible God wrote with God’s heart. Don’t give up. I don’t know where you are at, but if you have a Calvary Chapel there, try it. Those I have attended so far are all meat & potatoes type churches where they know Christians are all under construction and many of their big pastors come from broken pasts.

  20. Is Cindi someone who works for BJU? If so, I think her last name should be identified. If she is going to spew out this trash and insult all survivors of abuse, then I would like her to own her trash-talk and let us know who she is.

    • I don’t teach at Bob Jones University, but I am a proud alumnus. I know Jim Berg and others who she is libeling on this blog of hers.

      God will hold her accountable. I feel sorry for her.

      • Whoa Cindi…did I hear you say that Cathy “deserves hell “? Who do you think you are – GOD? How dare you say this to an abuse survivor who has literally crawled her way back from the abyss to reclaim her life after being severely re-victimized by you and your cohorts at BJU. Instead of picking on Cathy you should be begging for her forgiveness for the cruel way you have treated her and continue to treat her. You should be ashamed of yourself!

        And if anyone is putting people on a throne it is you with your beloved BJU and Jim Berg!

        Cindi, the more I read your comments, the more disgusted I am that you would even pretend to call yourself a Christian. You are nothing like Jesus who is full of loving kindness, tender mercy and moved with compassion. Jesus would never talk to Cathy the way you have publicly berated her. I am also an abuse survivor and I am honored to stand with my sister and friend Cathy. She is my hero too!

      • Cindi, if you are going to accuse her of libel, you better have the evidence to back it up or you are the one who is guilty for slandering her. Your tactic is an attempt to threaten her into submission by your accusation. I feel sorry for you. God will hold us ALL accountable Cindi. You really should read your Bible more carefully. If I were you I don’t think I would take my accountability to God so glibly as though you will stand by and cheer if He “smites” her or something. I feel sorry for you. Sorry that you apparently eagerly anticipate God’s judgment on others as if it will vindicate you or something. There is a reason that God will have to wipe away all tears from our eyes in Heaven . . . and it may not be what you think it is.

      • Knock it off, oh Lover of Perverts and Destroyer of Innocents. You are going to be sorely disappointed when you and the perverts you support are the ones held accountable. You serve a false god of hatred and perversion. You convince nobody of anything except that your morals are upside-down.

      • I knew it. “A proud alumnus”, but OF COURSE. I KNOW
        Jim Berg, too, Cindi. He is one cold-hearted and unkind man when one is on his negative side. I have not seen the love of Christ manifest in Jim Berg. You may be an alumnus, Cindi, but don’t be proud.

    • Dani,

      Thank you for your kindness, but I’m not a hero. I’m just one person telling her story trying to keep more Cathy’s out there who went through abuse as a child understand:

      1) It was never their fault. All fault begins and ends with the perpetrators of abuse.

      2) The survivor is important and each survivors story is important.

      4) Encourage more survivors to tell their stories. If they don’t wish to do it over the internet that’s fine, but tell someone! It’s important to note here, the survivor needs to make sure they’re telling a safe person and setting appropriate boundaries with non safe person(s) in order to avoid telling someone who will re-victimize them. Expose that monster of abuse! It matters not if it were 50 years ago or 5 minutes ago. Abuse is a monster who thrives and grows in secret, expose it and the monster runs away because it hates its evil exposed.

      4) Report to Law Enforcement. Even if the Statute of Limitations is past for you, the police will still take your report. Just because the SOL may be past for one person doesn’t mean he may not have other survivors who he abused who aren’t still within the SOL where an arrest can be made. Often you may be the ONE to hold the key. I found this out myself just recently.

      5) Don’t allow anyone to discourage you from reporting. Even some law enforcement persons have tried to do this out of loyalty to a ministry or laziness on their part, or for some other reason. If a LEO attempts to discourage reporting of these crimes, obtain his badge number. Find out who that officers superior is and make a *written complaint* to the law enforcement agency AND notify your local victims advocacy group in your area. Such as Network of Victims Assistancehttp://www.novabucks.org/ or contact RAINN
      Fortunately, most LEO’s aren’t like this, but as is true for all professions there are a few bad apples.

      5) Realize there is no such thing as minor when it comes to sexual abuse. ALL abuse is damaging,

    • Dani, and you other people place Cathy on a throne where only God belongs. It is wrong!

      Cathy is not a hero. (At least even she recognizes that which is to her credit.)

      Cathy’s not God nor is she the answer to abuse. God has given you the answer. His word is all you need.

      At this time, I’m leading a ladies study using Dr. Jim Berg’s DVD course “Quieting An Noisy Soul”, http://www.quietinganoisysoul.com/sessions.htm The only lady in our group who left and hadn’t found it helpful was a lady who refuses to recognize her responsibility of relinquishing it all to God and letting Him have control. When I told this other lady she needed to give up the pursuit for earthly justice and let God deal with it in his time, she told me she hated me.

      Talk about showing the Love of God, huh?

      Cathy and this lady I just mentioned are just as guilty and deserve hell as those they claim abused them.

      • Cindi. You deserve hell as much as any one. Even me. Except God has enough to cover those who love Him. Not for those who think they got everything under control

      • Cindi,

        Justice is at God’s heart.

        “The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern” (Prov. 29:7).

        Glad that woman walked out of a place that was teaching her otherwise.

      • Cindi: you sure have harsh words for abuse victims, but none for those doing the abuse. Do you realize what a horrible testimony that presents to a lost and dying world in desperate need of the love and healing of Christ? Oh, of course not. You are too busy getting off on judgment. Sick.

      • Cindi, just calm yourself and look at what you just said. Your words reek of hatred, anger, and judgment, rather than compassion. You had an opportunity to help a hurting person, but you got angry and upset with her leaving your class and saying she “hated” you. You completely missed the boat and the purpose of your own class–quieting a noisy soul! You must have a noisy soul that needs quieting, especially if such a thing so riles you up that you would essentially tell the one who offended you to figuratively “go to hell.”

        If you can’t control your own emotions as a teacher of that class, then I doubt you are qualified to be teaching it. You are taking it personally and having a hissy fit. She made you angry and she deserves hell because of that? To tell Cathy that she and your “lady” who rejected your teaching, deserve hell along with all the others who claim they have been abused is just an emotionally immature rant. The more your talk, the more you prove Cathy and the victims of abuse are right!!

        Before you judge and condemn others to hell, you had better consider your own heart. You are not telling us the whole story about the lady who left your class—we have not heard her side yet. If you treated her the way you are treating Cathy and the other people in this discussion, her reaction would be no surprise. She came to your class for help, and you sent her away without it. The good thing is that maybe she will go to a qualified counselor with a real degree from a real school.

        You won’t have compassion for victims until you have been one.

      • Cindi, this isn’t an issue of who deserves hell, it’s about justice for the vulnerable, something that Jesus was all over, but than you’d know that, if you actually knew Him. Your comment putting Cathy and the lady you mentioned into the same sentence with abusers and hell, THAT is just wrong. Not a stitch of compassion in your heart for the vulnerable, is there.

      • Oh, fuck off, Cindi. I feel so, so terribly sorry for anyone you’re “leading.” More people need to take Paul seriously when he says, “Let not many of you become teachers.” Don’t forget, you’ll have to answer for those you’re in “authority” over. I have a feeling the God who won’t extinguish a flickering candle or break a bruised reed won’t take kindly to you telling survivors of horrors you can only imagine that they’re bitter and need to ask forgiveness for the “sins” of depression and PTSD.

      • Oh Cindi – glad you came back! Perhaps you really know what we are saying is true and you just can’t bear to tear yourself away from it … such a Fundy trait.

        First, given the nature of your attack dog posts and answers, I have to guess “The Big Dick” or one of his primary minions put you up to the repeated posts. If you do have any connection to (and affinity for) the man, your energies would probably be better served in ensuring he gets good legal counsel and begins to strike some sort of plea bargain for the firestorm of crap that will ultimately rain down on him for his accomplice-after-the-fact role in the kidnapping. No statute of limitations there … just a whole lot of legal stuff when it happens. And I’ve little doubt from even what limited stuff I’ve seen that it will happen.

        As for the Berg, he has less academic standing than I have and even less training in “counseling” for any legitimate purposes. For him to actually peddle books that misinform and mislead people borders on criminal in my book. His ego far outstripped his Christian compassion decades ago. Frankly, the one woman you say walked away is the only sane one since Berg (and by extension you) advocate throwing over legal and prudent responsibilities to protect people and prosecute crimes. That is a big reason the whole GRACE investigation was launched you know … I’d say that woman was safer without you.

        And as for you, what little I can ascertain, you sound and write like the typical brain-washed, narrowly educated, Fundy breeding stock woman men like “The Big Dick” and Berg rely on to carry out their message and mission. They prey on you to keep you “humble and submissive” while pretending to educate you at places like BJU that exist primarily for you to get an MRS degree with one of their fine, upstanding young studs who will carry their message forth. I can only be happy I’m so far removed from that pile of $#i+ logic that my wonderful, God-loving, independent, and intelligent girls will never know the bondage you so willingly accept.

        So keep reading and posting – report back to Mr. Berg (no, he’s not my pastor or even a good under-shepherd let alone a “doctor”) that the bad bloggers and their mean, bitter friends chewed you up and spit you out. Then, if you’d like to come back and really have a discussion about the compassionate nature of God through Jesus Christ, we’d be happy to entertain you.

      • Where are you teaching this life-changing class, Cindi?
        How can you teach a class to abused woman by a man who has not been abused?
        Are you also a victim, and did you find this helpful?
        How was it helpful?
        Loving people who do not agree with you is never easy. Are you experiencing God’s grace in this area?
        Are you forgiving them without condemning them?
        Are you able to pray for them and not label them?
        I am asking you holy questions. What are your answers — your answers — not answers given to you by somebody else?
        In my experience as a Christian worker the best way to quiet the wounded soul is to listen to them and listen to them and listen to them until they are empty. Are the methods in this book by Mr. Berg those of listening or imposing rules?

  21. Cindi, you are so clueless it is amazing you can even operate a computer. When survivors call each other heroes they are not replacing God on the throne – they are merely acknowledging one another on how much they respect them and the progress they have made to become strong after being abused. Good grief – People call fireman heroes too and I am pretty sure you aren’t blasting them about removing God from the throne.

    For many of us abuse survivors here, we were abused in a religious setting and the last thing we need is a Bible Thumper like you hitting us over the head with the Bible. Our abusers quoted the Bible to us too. Unless you are willing to walk with us in love and compassion then you have nothing to say to us. We don’t need anyone to preach to us, force us to forgive or hound us with condemnation. We just need someone to reassure us, validate our pain and walk gently with us through the broken places. This is something I am quite sure you are incapable of doing.

  22. And another thing Cindi…get this straight – God does not anoint child molesters and those who harbor and protect them. God is honored when those who prey on children are exposed and their wickedness revealed. God does not honor those who hide sin.

  23. Oh Cindy, I had such a hard day yesterday because my son who was sexually abused during a spanking at his IFB school is looking at more medical treatment to stop the anal bleeding, He withdrew as a child after his abuse and tried to hide his injuries,,,but like psychological injuries that fest over time this injury has scared over and continues to break open I see so much grace and love in Doug as he is accused by the IFB that he he is homosexual, which he is not. He was molested as a young boy and that DOES NOT make him a homosexual. I got an email similar to those you are sending to Cathy calling myself, Doug and his brother Scott the bitter word, Scott was sexually abused at age 1 by his IFB school teacher, Scott was blamed and expelled from his IFB school. My boys have suffered as Cathy has suffered,and part of their healing has been to expose the abuse just as Doug will need to have surgery on his anus to rid him of the scar tissue that breaks open and he bleeds. Scar tissue is not as strong as undamaged tissues. That I have found to be true of our psychological scar tissue that builds up in an attempt to heal the trauma but continues to break open under the stress, Oh how sad it is to see that Cathy has had to face new information that confirms her abuse and that has torn open the old woulds. I see my boys move forward and fall back as they march on to recovery, I see Cathy march forward against insurmountable odd, Cathy called my son Doug when e first told about his abuse. She cried with him and never told him to “Get over it” because she knew he needed support to go another step, Another young man who was sodomized by his principal ended up killing himself when IFB write BUTCH on his car. OH Cindy if you could understand that saying the BITTER words to Cathy and other survivors is like. writing BITCH. God is always on the side of the weak and the vulnerable especially those who are harmed by others, Please offer us your BLESSINGS and stop writing BITCH on our foreheads because that is not what God wants you to do, The quote Jim Bergs words at Cathy is like. is like telling her and my son’s how beautiful and write the abusers and those who defend then are, When my son has surgery I will not want you to come and sit with him because I don’t think you are far enough in you relationship with Jesus to know how to reach out and love him. You love you offer Cathy,,,hurts Cathy and hurts those of us that love her,.My God intervene in your heart and protect you and yours from abuse as we have suffered.,.

    • Dear Sister, May the Lord Jesus heal you and your precious
      sons. I am sorrowing for you. May the Lord give
      great blessings to your sons for all the suffering they have endured. May He comfort you with songs in the night; may
      He hold you close in His great and comforting arms.

  24. Cindi, I feel so sorry for you. Some day, whether here or in the life to come, you are going to have an experience of Jesus Christ that will leave you deeply devastated and broken over the way you have not loved your neighbours as yourself. And yes, God will be there to show you the mercy that you haven’t shown others — mercy because you do not deserve His kindness.

    You accuse Cathy of being treated like God, of being put on a pedestal — and yet that is exactly where you are placing yourself and those that you quote. Pride does come before a fall, Cindi — that’s scripture that you can take to any spiritual bank.

    Cathy — those of us who have come to know you, even the littlest bit, know that you are more than aware that you are not God! But you are walking in the Light, and the darkness is not happy. Stay in that Light, girl!! And let the Light of Truth continue to shine out through those broken places in you!!

  25. Cathy I wish I could hug you. I typed that first comment and then took a break. I was really mad. But when I stopped and thought about Cindi’s comments I had to laugh. God is love but all Cindi’s comments have show is hate, judgement and condemnation. Cindi puts mortal (asses) on the thrown and her head up her butt.

    Cindi you said: Cathy’s not God nor is she the answer to abuse. But Cindi neither are you. You have forgotten all of Gods love, compassion and kindness. Your god is one I gave up years ago. I wanted the God of love.

    Cathy please, please, please keep speaking out. Your voice is needed.

  26. Whoa, Cindi Lou! I guess being shown how foolish your PTSD notion was has really fueled your bitterness.

    Now you’re blatantly coming back here to say that abuse victims deserve hell, but the likes of Joe and Evangeline Combs, Daniel Leaf, Jack Schaap and Jerry Sandusky, to name a few, should never have been convicted and imprisoned. How about you and that dude you worship, (Little Jimmy Berg) lobbying for their release, since our judicial system was so unfair to them? (Oops, sorry. I forgot that Daniel Leaf is on his way back to prison.) I suppose that, in your opinion, prisons aren’t necessary.

    You must be one lonely and guilty-feeling gal yourself to try and draw an audience with such un-Christlike behavior. You are also wearing your desperation like a light-up, sequined badge.

    I’ll also bet you’re thinking that, on judgment day, your air of condemnation (which ONLY our creator has a right to) will earn you a “Well done thou good and faithful servant.” for such a guilt-ridden, desperate display.

    You obviously have been greviously harmed at some time in your life, and was made to feel guilty about it. You are a sad case.

  27. So Cindi, by saying they deserve hell, you are, in essence, placing yourself on the same pedestal as only God belongs – judge and jury.

    “talk about showing the Love of God, huh?” exactly

    I think anyone reading this has a pretty clear understanding of what kind of person you are. You are the reason so many of us (born/raised in ‘Christian’ homes) have ended up in a place where we have no idea who God is, or what exactly it means that ‘He loves us’.

    You truly are one of these – You are the ones blocking the way for so many others, who really are seeking for the way.

    “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.” Matthew 23:13

  28. PS one last question. Cindi are you a card carrying member of Westboro Baptist Church? You show the same hate. Thank you for showing what BJU stands for. Judgement and Condemnation. Your testimony is outstanding.

  29. So, uh, where has Cathy publicly named names of her abusers? Produce the post. A direct link is fine. If the Flaming Fundies are anything like the Hyles Hellion who accused me of something nasty. I publicly embarrassed the guy by disproving his claims. Come on, post the link.

  30. “I know for a fact you were taught 1 Chronicles 16:22. “Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm. Each time you are tempted to bring Christian leader to task for their sexual sins, put it under the blood and stop taking it upon yourself to expose them. It’s God’s job, not yours.”

    You just glaringly told on yourself, Cindi. YOU are attempting to cover for someone who is an abuser! No one, in this day and age, that I have ever run across who uses 1 Chr. 16:22 in a feeble attempt to silence a victim has any agenda other than trying to cover up the sin (read: CRIMINAL ACTIONS) of someone who claims to be anointed of God, even themselves. This anointed person you are trying to defend has wrists that will fit in handcuffs just as well as anyone else’s. I just wonder how much this abuser appreciates you publicly drawing attention to this matter and unwittingly throwing them under the bus? Have they told you to shut your pie-hole yet?

    You have solidified your intentions in a PUBLIC forum. And chances are good that your own words are testimony that will support a criminal investigation. Keep talking, lady. Your comments could very well lead to an abuser going to prison. It’s not like the authorities can’t find out who you are through computer forensics. You made it very clear that you like to think you and this Jim Berg guy are joined at the hip. The authorities tracking you down will be a cakewalk.

    People like you are favorites for investigators. You are providing a glaringly clear and easy path to the criminal you are trying to protect. Cathy, or any other victim may thank you one day for making it so eay to get a conviction.

  31. Cindi where is the post that Cathy named a name of a pastor who abused her? I am one of those people who love to expose predator preachers who prey on children and the vulnerable.

    Please give me his name so that I can be sure to warn others …please Cindi just ONE NAME

    • Yeah, Cindi, spill it. Come on. Defend by name the people you claim Cathy has exposed. Grow a backbone and name names, girl! Defend these so-called anointed. Heck, you have proven you couldn’t care less about justice for victims, so let’s see if you will defend creeps.

  32. I said earlier I feel sorry for Cindi; I don’t any more. I pity her. I pity her because she knows nothing of the Jesus Christ of the Bible. The one who is named Wonderful Counsellor. The One who forgave the woman taken in adultery. Cindy, teacher of a class on quieting a noisy soul? What a bunch of quackery for one whose soul is awash in her own hate, anger, and unrighteous judgment. All I know of Cindi is what I have read here in this discussion forum, yet I would never darken the door of a class taught by her . . . ever! And if perchance I did, I would get up and walk out, too! Gee Cindi, there must be a reason that woman left your class . . . ya think?

    The more you talk the more you show what an un-Christlike, compassion-less, hypocritical judge you are. You don’t know your own Bible. Even what you quote is taken out of context and misapplied. . . a clear demonstration of your personal ignorance of the Scriptures. Personally I doubt you even really believe the Bible for what it really is. I really hope that someday you may find the Christ of the Bible and come to a personal relationship with Him. He is NOTHING like what you represent by your life, words, and behavior

    I used to be just like you. I said a lot of mean things to Cathy . . . things I wish I could take back. In spite of my meanness, she forgave me without a second thought. She showed me more of Christ than you know, and more than I deserved from her.

    Cindi – – – may you some day come to know the Jesus who told the adulterous woman, “neither do I condemn thee.” What a thought! The only one who was qualified to stone her, FORGAVE her! Cindi, you are here throwing a lot of stones at people . . . and you are not qualified. Your heart is a stone. Your are a most pitiable person. You are also a victim of abuse . . . you just are not willing to see it . . .and you defend it.

  33. I am just guessing here, but I have this strange “Jedi” sense that Cindi is not a female, but a male posing behind a fake profile. Cindi sounds a lot like an IFB pastor perhaps? There is this neat little thing called trace that computer geeks use to track back the ISP of such posters. . . .I wonder . . . .

  34. I relate to many of Cathy’s experiences in the IFB Church/College systems. When a deacon told me I was beyond help and was formally shunned by him from his Church I was shocked. After graduating from MBBC and spending years teaching in the IFB system I knew of no verses where God threw people out of church….My offense was talking about the sexual abuse endured by my 2 son’s while our family was serving in the IFB church as teachers. When I read Cathy’s story I can see how the statements of not wanting sexual abuse survivors in the church UNLESS they do not speak of the abuse is a universal IFB doctrine that is not formally written down. Tina Anderson was told not to talk about her rape as a teen at MBBC as well. So what are rape victims in the IFB church to do??? Shut up or shipped out??? Any one got a roll of tuck tape? It seems as we have seen the IFB “Shutting Up of Victims” develop over time that the silencing has served to be a microphone for the victims stories to be heard on 20/20, CNN, radio and books….oh so many books written by the IFB survivors. I wonder what would happen if all the energy the IFB leaders have put into pushing the large beach ball under the water was put into solving the problem of sexual abuse in the IFB. I think GRACE is doing a nice job working on that. Thank you Cathy for telling your story and standing up top the continued IFB abuse we have suffered in a further attempt to silence the IFB survivors. Thank you GRACE, grandson of beloved Billy Graham, for helping survivors of IFB abuse

    • I don’t have any words to express the sorrow in my heart over what happened to you and to your two precious boys at the hands of these monsters.

      My heart breaks as I know because of the “special” paddling where the monster anally penetrated and caused injuries with life long consequences. As a nurse, I understand the physical damage that monster did. It angers me too that the legal system failed your sons and the SOL is past for any redress.

      While your one dear son still suffers physically, both suffer psychologically, emotionally and with addictions as a result of what these perpetrators have done. When that fact is pointed out the perpetrator defenders blame your sons for the psychological, emotional and the addictions the perpetrators caused.

      I won’t even pretend that I understand the mind of God. I know God will have his due with these perps one day. If it were me, I would stop it and ensure quick and swift justice is delivered both in this life and in the next. God has His plan.

      I surely empathize with all of you that justice denied here in this life by our own legal system is a hard bitter pill, but keep telling what happened to you, to your family, and to your boys.

      Survivors need to know they’re not alone. For decades I thought I was the only one who suffered abuse in the Christian setting. After Berg’s counseling it took me over 10 years to find out he’d counseled and damaged 100’s of others.

      Others who were not abused in or are not familiar with fundamental Christian circles need to be educated that abuse by clergy is far from just “the Catholic Church problem.” I have no doubt statistics will eventually bear out and prove clergy abuse and cover-ups in fundamental churches will meet or even exceed any level ever seen in these cases by the Catholic Church. Fundamental churches and parachurch institutions such as Bob Jones University, Hyles-Anderson College, Maranatha Bible College, Pensacola Christian College, Prairie Bible Institute and others are by their very nature insular, thereby making it extremely easy isolate as they condemn each victim outside of the light of day.

      Please know you have my love and support. I wish there were more that I could do….Again, I’m so sorry.

      Love,

      Cathy

  35. Cindy, I cannot believe you said that about PTSD. You have no understanding of it whatsoever. I am an MK. I was left in a Chinese hospital at 2 years of age with seizures from high fever and all around me were people who did not speak English and looked funny to me. Also I went through the occupation of China where my parents had to flee in fear of their lives. I would wake up at 3:00 a.m. in the morning in terror as an adult. I would pray the names of God through the alphabet and pray and pray until the sun came up. It was not unforgiveness that caused that time of terror, but PTSD — a re-experiencing of the event. Through much understanding and the kindness of a pastor who answered the phone at 2:00 a.m. in the morning and prayed for me in tongues, I was delivered from the re-occurring terror. Now it only hits me when I am attacked spiritually, and I am able to weather it through and not find I am experiencing the mindless terror. There is nothing unforgiving in me towards anyone or the circumstances of that terror. I do not know where you get your theology, but it is flawed.

    AS for not touching the Lord’s annointed, I believe that was speaking of annointed kings and figuratively of Jesus Christ. I do not think any of these so-called “Men of God” were annointed kings in the Biblical sense with oil and a ceremony of annointing and assignment to their task. I see much falsehood in their teachings — like that one pastor says that his church is graced. How can a church be graced that does not know how to give grace when God has given them so much. — Jesus did not turn the woman away who was caught in adultery, but forgave her and stayed with her. That is what grace is — unmerited favor. Cathy was a tiny child and had no strength to fight or choice in what happened to her — no one was there to protect and shelter her as you probably shelter your children. To relive that terror constantly and then be accused of causing it is NOT grace in any sense of the word.

    Your legalistic interpretation of Scripture makes me doubt whether you HAVE EVER had an encounter with the Jesus who said “Where are those who condemn thee…..neither do I condemn thee.” or the Jesus who said to the woman who washed his feet with her wedding perfume and wept over them and dried them with her tears, when no one in the house did what was courteous — and said “She has done what she could.”

    Legalism has a way of walking in the door and when that happens love walks out the door.

    Please learn to be a lot more understanding before you put your opinions out there and further hurt an already wounded soul. Leave condemnation out of your remarks and seek to put comfort and love into them — thus you can truly reflect the Christ you claim to serve. I forgive you Cindy for your ignorance and I forgive you for your absolute legalistic outlook on the relationship with Jesus Christ. I pray that you will not have to suffer the harsh judgments from others that you are heaping on this wounded soul.

  36. Honestly, after all the dialogue here, I’m pretty certain that Cindi’s intent is not to give Christian counsel to Cathy. Her intent is to try and shut her up so whomever the abuser is that Cindi is trying to protect won’t be held accountable for what they have done.

    I believe the term “given over to a reprobate mind” may possibly apply here. Especially after Cindi has been shown, in no uncertain terms, the error and danger of her public statements. Her blatant disclosure of her legalistic and unrepentant mindset leaves me resigned to believe that continuing to try making her understand how horribly wrong she is is a useless endeavor.

    I fear that Cindi herself is the one who is TOO FAR GONE to be helped.

  37. I am not comfortable with giving up on anyone, but I do not think Cindi is a real person. Whomever “she” is, she is a troll hiding behind a fake profile and just getting her kicks by making inflammatory comments to trigger us all.

    I lived under that BJU system since my earliest childhood memories and only came out of it in recent years realizing how I had been duped and spiritually abused all those years of my life. NO MORE OF IT!!

    But it is so hard to gain freedom from the cult-like thinking and the mindset.

    BJU destroyed my son spiritually. At the end of one year, he came home so depressed, we should have got him professional counseling. He still believes that because he had trouble doing room jobs, being late to class—his sins–that he was no good to God and would never amount to anything. He was told by his “counselors” there that God would NEVER use him for anything. That is what my son got from Bob Jones University, and he seldom attends church anymore because of the kind of Christianity he was taught there. He is convinced he is no good to God and is worthless as a Christian. He has given up on God. He still is paying for his wife’s worthless degree and she is a spiritual wreck as well. That is what Bob Jones University does to people who can’t, won’t or don’t do what they are told without question. Spiritual destruction. What they do is representative of the IFB as a whole. They won’t change until they have no more followers to control. People should just get out of the IFB and the sooner the better for the own well being.

    They think they are the gate to Heaven . . . and pretty much the only one at that. They don’t realize that they have left a trail of human spiritual carnage as long as their history and more far-reaching than any one can know. If they do realize it, then they are the worse because of it; knowing but not caring.

  38. Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” Cindi-your statement against Cathy exposing “Christian Leaders for their Sexual Sins” is absurd!!! These so-called christian leaders are not CHRISTIAN at all as evidenced by their own actions! See above verse….and I hope to God you are not her sister.

  39. This is so typical of fundies…they love to do their drive-by shootings where they spew all the pent up anger inside them. Then when they are challenged they run for cover and you don’t hear from them until the next drive-by. Tbird you are right – her intent was to shut down Cathy but looks like we all pulled together and shut her down instead. Now she can go cry on Jimmy Berg’s shoulder and read her own damn “quieting the noisy soul” trash.

  40. Cindi: I have to wonder if you are not one of those that also abused her.

    You see my college doesn’t ask others to go around the internet to stick for them. I went to a Christian college, and they are more than able to take care of themselves. Strange how your college doesn’t seem to have the faith to feel they can also. WELL – GRACE is there taking statements aren’t they? Getting you a bit paranoid are they?

    You don’t grasp the fact that your behavior and statements won’t do them any favors do you? I would assume that is more the koolaid talking more than anything.

    The bible asks us to respect the law, so your ‘earthly justice’ is called consequences that God himself told us to let happen. Its cowards like you that decide to play his role, and hurt those you are help share the burden with.

    Berg, and people like yourself have some hard knocks coming. If you aren’t arrested and jailed here on earth God will take care of it. You have his promise on that.

    Cindi doesn’t give her real name, because her faith is weak…and she is scared. Jesus told us to be bold, and sadly she is cowarding. People that say things like she has, and refuses to tell the world WHOM she really is? Her message and her walk can’t be that strong. I mean she didn’t learn much from Berg’s message did she? Remember the: refuses to recognize her responsibility of relinquishing it all to God and letting Him have control part?

    Come on Cindi! GOD is all you need! Don’t be a coward – His word is all you need in the face of your critics right? Let them know the REAL person behind your anonymous link!

    Sadly, I doubt your human nature will allow that.

    Sadly, you preach a good game, but your follow thought is lacking.

    I mean lets get serious here. It doesn’t take much courage to stand behind some anonymous name on the internet does it?

    It certainly doesn’t do much for your so called affiliation with some ‘college’, and some blessed man does it?

    Don’t speak of strength here unless you are show some! You are playing it like a child here after all!

  41. MOVING CINDI’S RESPONSE OF JUNE 30, 2013 HERE SO EVERYONE CAN SEE AND RESPOND….

    “I am in no way trying to claim Cathy never suffered any abuse. What I am saying is she has refused to accept her part and her responsibilities to admit that that too.

    There were certain things that we (Christians) “knew” were wrong at one particular time. Christians believed that it was wrong for women to wear pants to church, and rock music was wrong. Many things our society said was 100% wrong is accepted as now accepted as normal.

    We’ve backtracked significantly from those positions. Cathy airing all this dirty laundry on her blog is a good example of this.

    We have now allowed our interpretation of the Bible to be influenced by the popular opinion in the World and what some liberal attorneys and judges tell us to turn pastors (anointed by God) over let them decide and punish in a court where the God of the Universe is the one to judge..I know there is even a so-called Christian organization named GRACE that has been named in the comments of this blog who not follow this lie from Satan but encourage others “hurt” by Pastors and Christian Organization be prosecuted in this early system. What should one expect any different from a organization whose founder is the grandson of a compromising apostate such as Billy Graham?..

    God’s Word did not change, but we did. Our society as a whole has abandoned the idea of personal responsibility. We are no longer responsible for our actions. Nothing is our fault. If we can’t find a person to blame it on, we create a disorder to blame it on. We are not sinful; we are sick. It is not our fault. As Cathy is making the same mistake because of this so-called PTSD some meddlesome secular therapist convinced her she has.”

    • Ok. Cindi I’ve had enough.

      I’ve left this go on this long, because I know you and know the abuse I witnessed you receive.

      However, you’re an adult and you’ve taken this way too far.
      If you plan on commenting on my blog in the future, plan on telling everyone who you *really* are in relation to me, or I promise you I, myself, will expose your identity.

      I’m not going to enable your actions. Not one more time.

      Think I’m kidding about exposing publicly who you really are? Try me.

  42. Cindi, you absolutely make my blood boil! An abuse victim has NO PART or RESPONSIBILITY – they were abused. How in the world you can say that Cathy did not accept her part and responsibility in the abuse is beyond my comprehension. The only responsibility belongs to her abusers – not to her.

    I am a Christian and I have never believed it was wrong to wear pants to church or listen to rock music. Those who believe that are extremist fundamentalist – NOT Christians.

    Cathy telling the story of her abuse is NOT backsliding – it is exposing evil as we are told to do in the Bible.

    Anyone can be a pastor – the title does not mean they are “anointed by God” anymore than me sitting in a garage will make me a car. It is just a title. Many of those in the pulpit today called themselves – it had nothing to do with a call from God.

    So you think that criminals should not be prosecuted in a court of law? Or do you mean everyone but pastors should be? Are we supposed to have a “kangaroo court” designated just for pastors who prey on children? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. You are just trying to cover up for all these pastors who are criminals. Thank God we have the legal system that protects us from religious extremists like you who want to impose their own brand of justice on the rest of the people. The Bible talks about how God appointed kings and rulers. Romans 13:1-3 says that he ordained leaders and we are to obey them. So your anti-government view is just plain wrong.

    Billy Graham is an apostate? Wow that is news to me – he is the most highly respected minister on the planet. GRACE is a Christian organization and operates in a highly ethical manner under the direction of Boz Tchividjian who is a remarkable and godly man. You should be ashamed of yourself for slandering him and his grandfather’s reputation. You have no idea who this man is and what he stands for. Again, to turn in criminal pastors is NOT evil – it is what is expected of us as true Christians. We are to despise what is evil and cling to what is good.

    I think Cathy is doing a remarkable job at progressing on her healing journey – you just don’t like it that she didn’t embrace your “plan” for “healing” (which was really more abuse). You need to get over yourself Cindi and realize that you are a loser when it comes to counseling abuse survivors. The garbage that Jim Berg preaches is trash and does nothing but damage abuse survivors. You both need to quit trying to counsel any abuse survivors because you are harming people.

    it is incredible Cindi how you have succeeded in making it crystal clear to everyone how you fundies harm abuse survivors. No one would believe it if I told them but it came straight from your twisted mind. I truly believe you think you are right in what you believe but you couldn’t be more wrong. You and Berg are the reason we survivors don’t go to the church for help with our abuse. We run to the secular therapists who know what they are doing. You and Berg are ignorant and have no idea how to help us.

    Again there are bona-fide diagnosis for depression, PTSD, etc. that are related to brain chemistry and trauma that have nothing to do with your nonsense about bitterness and unforgiveness. You are the meddlesome wanna be therapist that needs to butt out and go sit in the corner. You are the real quack!

  43. Just a comment about Billy Graham. He, at over 90 years of age, has not only maintained his personal character and integrity, so has his ministry. Many, many, many IFB preachers cannot do the same.

    Reading Cindi’s comment above has convinced me that she has precious little personal integrity on any level. Many people who spew such vindictive judgments upon others are more guilty of the same sins themselves.

  44. Cathy,
    Why not expose this Cindy. Her comments created so much pain to you and to everyone here. You do not owe her anything. She has the power unless you dismantle that power. She needs to stop.

  45. I agree with Nancy. When Cindi spews out her hatred at you Cathy, she hurts all of us survivors. I don’t think she deserves to be able to post anonymously anymore. I would definitely expose who she is – let the truth speak for itself. Every survivor deserves to know who is ignorantly and cruelly slapping them in the face.

  46. I hope that Cindi stops her harassment. Belinda, it IS her sister….it could be no one else save her brother in law Al. I wouldn’t put that past him. Her message is crazy, but it seems to well written to have come from her. Shame on you both (Van Osten’s).

  47. Pingback: Run! You’ll Find Bondage At “Freedom House! | Once Lost Child

  48. Pingback: Run! You’ll Find Bondage At “Freedom Home! | Once Lost Child

  49. Reblogged this on RELIGION'S CELL and commented:
    Notice the fundamentalist comments that attack this victim for telling her story of abuse. Fundamentalist Religious Zealots have no compassion, no mercy, no love toward victims that speak out. Their intent is to attack and silence them, shame them further, and slander their character with their use of scripture and words laced with poison. These are not real Christians. These type of people are “clones” of a corrupted religious system that fosters hate toward the hurting, abused and weak and, toward those that DARE to speak TRUTH to them. I beieve Jesus refers tot their kind as “white-washed sepulchers.” Sad.

    I applaud “Once Lost Child” for her courage and strength in finally telling her TRUTH. My prayer is that God’s hand of judgment will be meted out on those that are trying to silence and further harm those that speak out about the crimes committed against them “in the name of God.”

  50. Cathy, this is just heartbreaking. And Cindi’s comments are just as bad as what Berg did.

    Quick question: will you please identify which pastor in Greenville said that to you? I live in Taylors and I really want to know. If you’re not willing to identify him publicly, could you email his name to me or private message me over Facebook.

    • Since BJU fired GRACE I have already named the name of the pastor in a few places on facebook. I wasn’t going to do that, but since they seem to think they can throw survivors away like rubbish…

      Pastors name is Mark Minnick.

      • That’s who I figured it was. Thanks.

        I’m naturally a “fighter” and it makes me so angry to read stories like yours. I grew up at Calvary in Lansdale and actually lived, for my teen years, closer to Bethel and Faith than I did to Calvary. When I was 12, my parents moved to Bedminster, which is near Dublin and Perkasie. My brother started attending Bethel in the mid 90’s and was a deacon there until about 3 years ago when I persuaded him and the rest of my family to move to SC. I guess because of the geographic proximity of my childhood to yours, your story hits home to me a little harder than the others I have read.

        Thanks for sharing and keep up your good work.

      • I knew it! His name came to mind immediately when I read your account. It’s been a quarter of century since I sat in his classes at BJU, but I’ll never forget his cold arrogance and the way he shamed me in front of a very large class without giving a chance to respond. I went to his office to confront him about it. Had he been there I would have been expelled.

        Minnick was a jerk to me, but it’s nothing compared to what he did to you. The failure to minister God’s grace to a hurting person, let alone to call you out and kick you out, is simply evil. It is not scriptural nor is it from the Holy Spirit.

        Despite having grown up in an IFB church and graduating from BJU, I’m shocked by the attitude shown by “Cindi” and others who feel it’s right to cover up sin. The Bible never ever says that’s ok. Sin is to be exposed and removed, not covered up – especially when it’s a so-called minister of God doing the sinning. In the Old Testament God didn’t hesitate to kill priests who approached him sinfully. While lightening isn’t striking pulpits today, there may be a lot of pastors that the Lord says he never knew when they face him in eternity.

        It wasn’t until many years after graduating from BJU that I became a genuinely converted, born again christian. My time at BJU was mostly good (except that Minnick thing), and I never hated the school. But now I look back and wonder if God really has anything to do with the school? Your story further makes we wonder.

        I hurt for you having been treated like you were by a pastor. I’ll be reading the rest of your blog, and I hope to see that you found a church that welcomed you and ministered to you. Thank you for sharing your experiences.

        P.S. Berg always gave me the creeps, too.

    • It is heartbreaking, Steve. Even more so when you realize you had some type of connection. Many others of Cathy’s age have sent her messages and commented here wishing they had “done more”. The problem is that kids aren’t in that position and the adults who were failed miserably in so many cases.

      Let’s just pray the evil done at BJU doesn’t get whitewashed further. Truth is what we need … truth and a lot of God’s real grace.

      Mark

  51. By the way, and I know that ultimately this is meaningless, and I’m not trying to claim some special connection to your life story, but when I was born (and for the first 4 years of my life) my parents lived on Diamond Street in Hatfield and their property backed up to Neshaminy Creek. I’m assuming the farm where you lived was located up the creek a few miles in the Hilltown/Chalfont/Montgomeryville area.

  52. I just read through the various posts and came away with one thought…this whole thing is REALLY sad. I’m kind of expecting to get blasted for this, and my motive is not to anger anyone, but here goes:
    #1 – What happened to Cathy was a crime and should have been treated as such. I’ve dealt with Jim Berg on various occasions and have heard him say the same thing regarding incidents such as this. Cathy, my heart goes out to you for the trauma you experienced. By the way, PTSD is real; just my opinion–as some stated, I’m not an MD so I can’t really know. I’ve seen SOME abuse the title to continue in selfish pursuits but that doesn’t make the trauma experienced by some people less real. Today many are told that they can’t help their reactions because they have been diagnosed with PTSD. Can’t go along with that one. We can chose to respond in Christ honoring ways regardless.
    #2 – Multiple people have made the statement that sin needs to be exposed. This is a true statement, but in this case (hold tight) I would have to agree with Cindi that a blog isn’t the proper vehicle for it. Sounds like many of you are really angry and ready to jump on a band wagon without having ALL of the facts from ALL of the parties involved. Cindi was accused of acting as judge and jury, and I’m not arguing that. However, some of the responders were doing the same thing. Going through the steps of church discipline and taking the offender to the law is proper. Most of the comments I heard made assumptions and generalizations. That’s often dangerous.
    #3 – Generalizations are normally inaccurate. To hear people lump all IFB churches into the same category is not accurate or honest. I really am sorry that so many have had these negative experiences. I truly mean that. But unless you have seen all of the IFB churches you can’t accurately make those judgments. You’re guilty of the same thing your accusing others of. just something to think on.
    #4 – I’m not saying that Cathy is being deceitful because I can’t. I wasn’t there at the counselling session or at the meeting at the church. If I said she was lying I would be casting a judgment that I’m not able to cast. At the same time, I can’t say that the accusations being made were truly made for the same reasons. It’s sad that so many are quick to believe the worst about people (on both sides) and assume that any evil reported is accurate. That’s why the blog exposure is so dangerous. People “assume” everything reported is accurate. We don’t have the ability to judge what happened accurately so we should practice I Cor 13 love and give the benefit of the doubt to all involved. I’m NOT saying that Cathy is not telling the truth. I have no clue. Most will want me to give the benefit of the doubt to her…that needs to go two ways.
    #5 – I must admit I was appalled to hear that someone “deserves hell” in the context in which it was used. I deserve hell and so does everyone else. Thankfully I am currently under “no condemnation” thanks to my Lord’s sacrifice for me and my receiving His gift. That statement came from frustration and anger. It wasn’t appropriate.
    #6 – To hear numerous people say, tell me who the guilty person is, was simple gossip. Did you really want to “guard” yourselves from the “evil?” From the sounds of it, you’d never step foot in an IFB church anyways. So you couldn’t have been looking for protection. Be honest enough to call it what it is, gossip.
    #7 – I am a BJU grad and don’t regret it. I profited by my time there. I see negatives and positives as I do with any other institution or church. I’ve never personally experienced anything like what was discussed in the previous comments. I’ve heard and experienced just the opposite. From the posts above, this comment makes me the enemy. Sad.
    #8 – I’ve spent way too much time on this blog and have probably angered some from both sides. From the things said I haven’t heard too much handled well. The rapist should be in prison (we could offer various other punishments but that wouldn’t be profitable for this discussion). BTW that includes the lady whose sons were molested. Their attackers should be punished as well. Jesus ALWAYS wants reconciliation between fellow believers. Cathy, I know this is hard but if a believer has offended you, don’t give up, go to that believer and humbly express the sin they committed with a desire to reconcile. That’s a Biblical way to start the process. I’m not justifying anyone or saying sweep anything under the rug. I’m just suggesting handling it Biblically. The Bible doesn’t give us exceptions for that.
    #9 – Last thing – Aren’t you all relieved? 1Cor 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Yes, that includes the counselling, the blog, the responses to the blog (both sides of it), the “feelings” towards fellow believers, etc

    Cathy, you endured more than I can possibly imagine and my heart goes out to you. Remember the Gen 50:20 principle. I can’t say how but God can use this in you. As I’ve told numerous in my church, just make the NEXT step the right one. Don’t worry about down the road…it will take care of itself one step at a time.
    I’ll pray for your healing (that wasn’t an accusation it was meant to show that I do care)
    PS–those blogging, please be kind (I know–stop the Bible stuff) and no need for the profanity. I can get the point with intelligent language.

    • Richard; your comment is confusing.

      First of all, it appears as if you’re making the assumption that I never went to Jim Berg and others. I did. And wasn’t heard. Then I found out that Berg has done very similar things that he did to me for another decade.

      What I am stating here isn’t gossip. It’s what happened. I was sexually assaulted and child-sex trafficked for years. There is no way it is correct for me to go and seek reconciliation with those people who committed those heinous crimes. Neither is this mother whose son was violated expected to go and be reconciled with the person who violated her son!

      You claim the IFB churches are not all alike. If yours is different -great. Prove it.

  53. Richard,
    After skimming through your well written post, I would like to just highlight some of the things that you raised:
    1. The sexual crimes being committed by pedophiles within the religious communities like IFB and many other churches has been around since the beginning of time. What the religious leaders were not prepared for is the power of these social media to expose them.

    When victims choose to post their story in these forums with the intent of exposing their predators or simply informing the others that their stories are not alone, then in as much as it will hurt them again to talk about this trauma, unfortunately Richard, it is one of the most effective vehicle of exposing these criminals.
    Normal response from others like me should be anger. When something so vicious that completely contradict a religious organization’s teaching, it should anger any born again Christian.
    Sure, not all IFB’s are the same. Not all Catholics are the same, not all Jehovah’s witness are the same. However, when you have the time, watch this:(http://abcnews.go.com/US/jehovahs-witness-accuses-church-hiding-child-abusers-congregations/story?id=29586778&cid=fb_abcn_sf), then go back to all the cases covered by Grace of Bob Jones. When you are done, it is not very hard to make an analysis of why we put them all together , (I mean putting IFB’s together)

    Conclusion:
    The leaderships of these religious organizations are broken. Separating your church from a broken leader is hard……
    What would be correct is acknowledge the broken system, fix it, expose it and create something new.

  54. Sorry, some typos. I mean the investigation conducted by GRACE about the cases of abuse reported by Bob Jones Alumni.

  55. Richard, your comment is just bizarre. Are you an IFB preacher? You sure sound like it.

    A blog is the perfect place to expose sexual predators and those who revictimize abuse victims. Pedophiles, rapists and people who harbor them hate it that now we abuse victims have a means to track them down and expose them. Social media has been a godsend for us. It is making it more and more difficult for them to hide – and that is a good thing. And it is a good thing that we are exposing them. We are not to shy away from exposing evil. Ephesians 5:11-13 says, “Take no part in the worthless pleasures of evil and darkness, but instead, rebuke and expose them. It would be shameful even to mention here those pleasures of darkness that the ungodly do. But when you expose them, the light shines in upon their sin and shows it up, and when they see how wrong they really are, some of them may even become children of light!”

    You are giving away your identity as a preacher Richard…this comment gave you away. “Going through the steps of church discipline and taking the offender to the law is proper.” Spoken like a true fundy preacher – you guys always seem to want to do your own internal investigations/discipline before there is any mention of going to law enforcement. What is with you preachers who always want to reconcile a victim with their perp? You would never consider this for the crimes of murder, armed robbery or any other violent crime. So why is sexual assault different? I’ll tell you why – because you church people always like to keep these violent crimes secretive. And that is what makes the church such a great place for these creeps to hang out. They know that this is the modus operandi for churches so they have nothing to worry about. Once the internal church investigation/discipline is initiated, the church makes sure to sweep it under the rug under the pretense that “we can’t hurt the work of the ministry by having a scandal” and just like that the victim is shown the door and the perp gets to stay.

    You said, “I really am sorry that so many have had these negative experiences. I truly mean that. But unless you have seen all of the IFB churches you can’t accurately make those judgments.” Says who? Have you seen all of the IFB churches? No you haven’t.

    You said, ” Jesus ALWAYS wants reconciliation between fellow believers”. How do you know that these are fellow believers? “By their fruits ye shall know them”, not what church they go to or if they teach at BJU.

    You said, “Cathy, I know this is hard but if a believer has offended you, don’t give up, go to that believer and humbly express the sin they committed with a desire to reconcile. That’s a Biblical way to start the process. I’m not justifying anyone or saying sweep anything under the rug. I’m just suggesting handling it Biblically. The Bible doesn’t give us exceptions for that.” Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah…yep Richard you are a fundy preacher…I can just tell. Again, you show your ignorance of PTSD which would make it nearly impossible for a victim to do this. Secondly, you would not ever consider this for other violent crimes. This passage of scripture refers to handling disputes within the church – not dealing with sexual predators.

    Richard, yes I was relieved when you got to #9 – I thought you would never end! You really creep me out – I sincerely mean that. Your words at first glance sound to be empathetic but then you whittle away and whittle away at Cathy and her supporters and make us the bad guys. And your hideous little sermonettes mixed throughout that poke at Cathy and make it HER responsibility to make peace with those who have abused her. The last thing Cathy needs is a pompous self-righteous preacher telling her how she should handle her abuse and those who have revictimized her. This whole comment you made sounded sugary sweet until you read between the lines and see that it was just another Pharisee putting more obstacles in the path of a woman who has had way too many stumblingblocks put in her path already.

  56. Linda, I’m sorry for angering you. That wasn’t the intent. You seem to like to jump to a lot of conclusions and I can’t do anything about that.

    Daisy, you comments were worded in a very kind way and I appreciate that very much. I honestly didn’t write on here as “the enemy” and you didn’t treat me as such. Thank you. I agree with you that these sins have been around since the beginning and no group is exempt. I can’t begin to imagine the pain that comes with sharing a story such as Cathy’s. As I alluded to before, my heart goes out to her and other abuse victims.

    Cathy, my assumption is that you DID go to Jim Berg. Sorry for not being clear on that. As I mentioned to Daisy, I can’t imagine the scars, etc that you have had in your life. I know that know that the Lord is good and His grace is sufficient, but that doesn’t take away the pain that you’ve had to endure. I wouldn’t start to minimize that. I’m not sure how to “prove” that my church is different. Personally I know of many who would not condone the sins you have had to endure. All I was trying to say regarding the reconciliation is that when it is possible we should try. Jesus desired/desires forgiveness in all circumstances. I’m not saying it easy or even desirable but it’s right. Please don’t take that as a “slam” on you. It isn’t intended that way. You have hurts and they are legitimate, from what I’ve heard. I won’t go as far as to say everyone you’ve accused was in the wrong simply because I wasn’t there. If they told me things about you, I can’t say they’re right. I wasn’t there. I hope you understand my point.

    I trust that you will be able to find healing through Jesus. Anything else will be temporary. It sounds as if I angered some on your blog. Again, that was not my intent. Believe it or not, my writing on this was totally out of character for me and generated by caring about what you had endured. Some may not believe that but I can’t help what others believe.

    • Yep, just as a thought Pastor Ricky Boy – you are a fundy preacher! And like a good fundy preacher, you always discount what “the angry woman” says because well, she needs to learn to submit and keep her mouth shut and listen to the “man of gawd”. Will you listen for one minute to what Cathy is saying. She was abused by “men of gawd” and treated like trash by other “men of gawd” when she tried to get help and now you want her to go back and get more religion? Until you are ready to call out these “men of gawd” for the vipers and snakes they are, until you are willing to see them thrown in jail for their crimes, then save the speeches on forgiveness. We have all heard the “forgive and forget” sermons. What is sadly lacking from all of you church folks is a real honest to goodness outrage that propels you into demanding justice for abuse victims. We have all gone to your churches and it is always the same old thing. Victims are told we need to “forgive and forget” but the churches don’t call out the deacon who is abusing his daughter, or the wealthy man in church who is molesting little girls in the church. No, you wouldn’t think of doing that – it is always pile more on the victims. If you were in my shoes, you would be pissed too! Then again, maybe you wouldn’t. Preachers like you don’t likely change…

Thoughts?

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